Electrical/StallingIssue

[UncleMurphy]

Hi everyone,

Just rode the DN-01 to get the bike inspected for rego today (1800kms on the odo). I left the key to "ON" for around 10 seconds but didn't start it - during this time the brake lights, turn signals, high beams and horn were all tested.

When I started it to leave it started first go but after a few seconds idling it stalled! I thought this might be electrical related but the battery was a new one and started it again perfectly.

I rode around 10kms home but during the last traffic light (500m from home) the bike stalled again - the same as the first time. I was idling at the traffic light and it lost revs and died.

Now I've read that the DN-01 has an alternator that is fairly weak, would anyone be able to clarify further on this? Has anyone found an off the shelf alternator from a different Honda (say Goldwing) which has a larger charging capacity?

Another observation was an electrical clicking/arcing sound near the front (radiator area), is this normal or not?

Hoping to hear your replies.

Victor

 

[DNSarnia]

My first thought is there is something going on - on the fuel side. Full tank? Fresh gas? Mine has never had an issue with insufficient electrics. I did have a bummer of a battery, but once that was replace - it works great.

 

[UncleMurphy]

My first thought is there is something going on - on the fuel side. Full tank? Fresh gas? Mine has never had an issue with insufficient electrics. I did have a bummer of a battery, but once that was replace - it works great.

Hi DNSarnia,

The fuel is Premium 98 octane unleaded (no ethanol) but has been in there for around 6-12 months. During this time it was ridden maybe 5kms? to keep the battery charged.

 

[DNSarnia]

5 km isn't enough to keep the battery charged. What is the voltage now (do both key off, and engine running) You should see a difference of a couple of volts Off should measure at least 12V, running should be between 13.5 and 15 volts at 1000 rpm. If that checks then the battery and charging circuit are pretty good.

The manual actually calls for 'regular' fuel (not premium or high octane) - I don't know if that plays into your troubles. (I doubt it). Was the fuel 'treated' for storeage?

 

[Gizmo]

Definitely could be fuel since it sat for so long .... 98 octane and non-ethanol really does NOT matter IF it sat. Gas goes BAD if it sits, period.
If the bike was running and stalled at the light ... me think fuel. A bike will run even IF the battery is dead as long as it's running. It just won't start again.

 

[sentenal 333]

common problem with the arching is from faulty spark plug caps.
replace them with ngk caps .
to check if this is your problem put bike in a dark place and start the bike and look around the sparkplugs you should see arching around them.

 

[UncleMurphy]

Hi guys,

After a few days taking the Tupperware off (damn trim clips!), I managed to change the oil, oil filter, HFT filter and coolant (Honda Blue Type 2, it was apparently factory filled with green). I installed all the Tupperware back and luckily no missing or excess bolts! Gave it a wash and then rode it - it was much smoother BUT I managed after the short ride noticed the clicking sound.

Low behold it's electrical current jumping outside the spark plug lead and between the engine case. This is happening on BOTH spark plugs - I'm not sure whether its from me washing the bike and water getting around the engine case (which I wiped dry) or the fault listed above?

Would anyone know of a fix for this issue?

Thank you,

Victor

 

[DammmDel]

this is a fault honda is aware of a lot have had the same problem and a change of sparkplug caps sorted it. my local honda dealer sorted it free

 

[sentenal 333]

Hi guys,

After a few days taking the Tupperware off (damn trim clips!), I managed to change the oil, oil filter, HFT filter and coolant (Honda Blue Type 2, it was apparently factory filled with green). I installed all the Tupperware back and luckily no missing or excess bolts! Gave it a wash and then rode it - it was much smoother BUT I managed after the short ride noticed the clicking sound.

Low behold it's electrical current jumping outside the spark plug lead and between the engine case. This is happening on BOTH spark plugs - I'm not sure whether its from me washing the bike and water getting around the engine case (which I wiped dry) or the fault listed above?

Would anyone know of a fix for this issue?

Thank you,

Victor

if you read my reply I put up you would now what to do

 

[UncleMurphy]

Hi again,

Yes sentenal 333, I'm aware I may possibly need new caps - but on closer inspection the caps are NGK! The following marks are on the end of the cap "NGK D Type 35 NGK X Type"

I've also read online that Honda motorcycles of similar era which have the 680cc engine are affected which includes the Deauville and TransAlp. 2 Part numbers are on the Honda parts catalogue for the DN-01;

#30700-MEW-922 (NGK Caps)
#30700-MEW-921 (Honda OEM)

I'm happy to change the caps (would anyone know how to change them?) but have contacted Honda Australia to see if they are willing to help in anyway. As the bike has 1800~kms I find it unreasonable for a critical part to fail which could end up with the bike stalling in the worst of situations or even electrocution.

I've inspected the caps by removing the top dust boot holding the cap and have noticed an oily substance under it - which could potentially be causing this arcing. I've wiped it down with some petrol and will see how it goes in a few hours time.

Another question is would anyone know the NGK part number reference for the caps?

Again thank you for replying.

Victor

 

[DammmDel]

The age of the bike was irrelevant. The fact is honda recognised it as a universal fault. However they did not put out a recall on it but agreed to replace at their cost if the fault was brought to them. just saying

 

[UncleMurphy]

The age of the bike was irrelevant. The fact is honda recognised it as a universal fault. However they did not put out a recall on it but agreed to replace at their cost if the fault was brought to them. just saying

Thanks for the reply! I've managed to find the NGK cross reference part number for the caps for those who are interested - it's NGK VD05F

It's a waiting game to see if Honda Australia will be able to fix this known fault.

 

[UncleMurphy]

Hi guys,

Just want to report back Honda Australia didn't end up responding so I purchased 2 new NGK spark plug caps for $19.90 delivered to my door and installed them - no more clicking sound and arcing!

NGK's part number for them is VD05F (10-12mm) - they are Made in Japan and are waterproof. The rubber ends on them are much thicker than the OEM ones.

The new spark plug caps have "NGK" in white letters on it - so if you don't have that cap installed you may be in for some trouble in the future.

 

[whitehawk]

Well I had an interesting day yesterday - spark plug caps got me!
I had travelled 200 miles to my destination, stopping a couple of times to refuel and stretch my legs, with not a hint of a problem all the way until I stopped outside a bike accessories shop to see if I could get some new boots. As I stopped the engine missed a couple of times and then stalled.
My immediate thought was the caps, having read about it on this forum. Bike wouldn't start but I could see the right hand plug cap arcing to the engine casing as I tried to start it. I needed to get a couple of miles up the road to a meeting, so got some bits of thick rubber from the shop and jammed them around the back of the plugs - that helped a little but only just enough to get the engine going and limp at 20 mph to my meeting.
After that, had to call the breakdown service - telling them what the problem was and that if they could get some plug caps on the way to me then it would save them carrying the bike 200 miles home. Typically they refused to do that until they'd seen the bike and confirmed the problem.
So when the breakdown guy turned up he confirmed the problem - the arcing was very obvious even in bright daylight. Fortunately he had some 'magic Hungarian tape' that when wrapped around the plugs enough times stopped the arcing and I'm pleased to say that held all the way home. I was a bit nervous when I had to stop for fuel again on the way back but it started again and continued with no problems.
The tape was a thin fabric material that apparently has some electrical insulation properties - the guy was from Hungary and he stocks up on this tape every time he returns! I will have a look around for this - might be something worth carrying in case it happens again even with new caps.
So now, I need to get the proper plug caps. Honda dealer is a long way from here so I may as well just order and fit them myself - it seems like the NGK VD05F are the ones to go for? Can anyone let me know if they disagree?

 

[DNSarnia]

I wonder how 'normal' electrical tape would work - in a pinch. It's good to know that there is a 'Git me home' kind of fix for this issue, having had it happen to me only 2km from home or the bike shop, I was able to limp there.

 

[whitehawk]

I think normal electrical tape would melt, but I guess it would be worth a try if nothing else was available.

 

[RIDER-59]

I've been having some similar issues I think, but I'd like to know if anyone else has had related issues like me. As well as the bike stopping unexpectedly, there's been a couple of occasions where the bike didn't start. I ride a couple of days a week normally and I keep the bike undercover and covered in these cooler (winter) months. I put the key in and turn it t release the steering lock so I can push it out of the garage, then turn the ignition on, then switch the ignition switch (red) on, then wait for the indication lights to clear on the left of the display series. This is usually accompanied by the soft 'clicking' noise and then I press the starter - most times it fires up but a couple of times, it doesn't kick at all. There's nothing! I've found the 'fix' is a process of turning the key off,switching the ignition switch off, removing the key and then going through the star up process once again. 99.9% of the time this gets it sorted. Battery is good. Fuel is almost always 95 Octane (never 98). I'll admit, it does seem a bit 'odd'.

 

[DammmDel]

When I bought my bike the one thing the garage said to me was always turn ignition off with the key and not to bother with the red off switch, I don't know if that helps but I've never had that problem other than when the battery went flat.

 

[Gizmo]

Occasionally I've had similar indications .... everything looks/acts normal BUT the bike won't start. After numerous different ideas to try, I discovered that my red kill switch was the problem. I've had to "flick" the switch on and off before the bike would start. I live in Florida and we "constantly" have sudden, heavy rain storms. I believe that either the switch is low quality OR moisture/rain intrusion could be a cause. Just a thought. Also check that the side stand/kickstand switch is working properly.

 

[whitehawk]

It does sound most likely to be the kill switch - a bit of corrosion perhaps? Haven't looked at mine but I suspect it's not easy to dismantle and clean it.